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Kevin Goldstein Organizational Rankings

I wanted to take Goldstein’s individual team rankings and run a quick and dirty check to see how it matches up against his organization rankings. Nothing complicated numbers wise and thus we’ve got some caveats to my method.

Azru’s Total

This is a really straight forward system I’m using here. I’ve got the number of prospects ranked at each “star” level from Goldstein’s Top 11 Prospect Lists. I’m assuming a pyramid structure meaning that top-tier talent is scarce compared to talent near the bottom. Thus we’d value 5-star prospects more than just 5 times a 1-star prospect. In this case, I’m using 10 points for a 5-star, 7 for a 4-star, 5 for a 3-star, 3 for a 2-star and 1 for a 1-star. Add up the value of the Top 11 prospects and we should come out close to Goldstein’s organizational rankings, ideally.

Caveats

The first and most profound difference someone is likely to have with what I’ve done is the pyramid scheme. I’m basically contending that we should value talent in a non-linear fashion. If you read The Book Blog at all, you’re probably familiar with the fact that salary research indicates MLB teams pay their free agents in a linear fashion. That’s not to say they’re right just that salaries do not reflect a non-linear relationship. In my opinion, the scarcity of top-tier talent creates an added incentive to sign those players relative to average or replacement level players. I think the same notion applies to blue chip prospects. Would you trade Colby Rasmus for Eric Patterson and Jeff Samardzija of the Cubs? I wouldn’t because I think Rasmus is more valuable than just a 3-star and a 2-star prospect. I’m not sure I can sell everyone on this concept but I want to make you at least aware of my reasoning.

The second caveat is that this process assumes all same level prospects are of the same value. Is Geovany Soto as valuable as Jay Bruce? Probably not but their teams get the same credit for each. Does it matter that some 5-stars are at AAA (Bruce) while others haven’t thrown a major league pitch prior to their rankings (Porcello)? Again, a potential flaw in the method.

The third caveat is that this method will understate depth. Once your past the Top 11 prospects, you could have Team A which still has 4 or 5 2-star prospects while Team B has only 1 more 2-star prospect. I think the attrition rate among those lesser prospects mitigates this as the Top 11 prospects are probably going to give you a decent ballpark idea of the state of the farm system.

Results

The first table shows the raw numbers for the teams. Only one team lacked the depth to make it to 1-star prospects: the lowly Royals. The average point total is approximately 60, which is right around the middle of the list. That seems to be an aesthetically pleasing result. The standard deviation is 10 points. That seems to indicate that the Rays are really a standout organization in terms of talent and the Royals, Astros and White Sox are really bottom feeders as far as farm systems are concerned. The other teams fall within (or close to) a standard deviation from average which also seems like a nice result. The process doesn’t yeild many outliers but the teams that are on the outside seem to belong there. I’d like to think that’s because the method has validity but it’s also possible (even probable) that my number stratification for the different levels supresses outliers.

Team 5Star 4Star 3Star 2Star 1Star Total
Tampa Bay Rays 5 1 5 0 0 82
Atlanta Braves 2 4 5 0 0 73
Los Angeles Dodgers 3 1 7 0 0 72
Texas Rangers 1 5 5 0 0 70
Cincinnati Reds 3 1 6 1 0 70
Oakland Athletics 2 2 7 0 0 69
Baltimore Orioles 2 3 4 2 0 67
Boston Red Sox 2 3 4 2 0 67
Milwaukee Brewers 2 1 8 0 0 67
New York Yankees 1 4 5 1 0 66
Colorado Rockies 1 4 4 2 0 64
Chicago Cubs 2 0 8 1 0 63
San Diego Padres 2 1 6 2 0 63
Minnesota Twins 0 3 8 0 0 61
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 1 3 4 3 0 60
St. Louis Cardinals 1 2 6 2 0 60
Washington Nationals 2 1 4 4 0 59
Florida Marlins 1 1 6 3 0 56
Pittsburgh Pirates 1 2 4 4 0 56
Cleveland Indians 0 3 5 3 0 55
Philidelphia Phillies 0 2 7 2 0 55
Toronto Blue Jays 1 0 7 3 0 54
Arizona Diamondbacks 1 2 3 5 0 54
San Fransisco Giants 1 1 5 4 0 54
Seattle Mariners 1 1 4 5 0 52
Detroit Tigers 1 0 3 7 0 46
New York Mets 0 1 4 6 0 45
Kansas City Royals 1 1 2 4 3 42
Chicago White Sox 0 1 2 8 0 41
Houston Astros 0 1 2 8 0 41

So the question then becomes where do the differences lie. Below you’ll see the difference between my method and KG’s organizational rankings (Teams 1-15, Teams 16-30). Note: This is not how I, personally would rank the teams, merely what my method of tallying Goldstein’s team rankings output.

Team Azru’s Rank KG’s Rank Difference
Tampa Bay Rays 1 1 0
Atlanta Braves 2 8 6
Los Angeles Dodgers 3 5 2
Texas Rangers 4 3 -1
Cincinnati Reds 5 7 2
Oakland Athletics 6 2 -4
Baltimore Orioles 7 10 3
Boston Red Sox 8 4 -4
Milwaukee Brewers 9 13 4
New York Yankees 10 6 -4
Colorado Rockies 11 9 -2
Chicago Cubs 12 16 4
San Diego Padres 13 12 -1
Minnesota Twins 14 18 4
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 15 11 -4
St. Louis Cardinals 16 15 -1
Washington Nationals 17 14 -3
Florida Marlins 18 21 3
Pittsburgh Pirates 19 17 -2
Cleveland Indians 20 20 0
Philidelphia Phillies 21 26 5
Toronto Blue Jays 22 24 2
Arizona Diamondbacks 23 19 -4
San Fransisco Giants 24 25 1
Seattle Mariners 25 23 -2
Detroit Tigers 26 27 1
New York Mets 27 28 1
Kansas City Royals 28 22 -6
Chicago White Sox 29 30 1
Houston Astros 30 29 -1

Looking at the list I’m impressed with how close the two came to matching. The significant differences seem to be the Braves, Phillies and Royals. The Braves seem to get overlooked in Goldstein’s organizational rankings. They’ve got a nice spread of talent across the tiers. I personally prefer a team like the Reds who have a lot of near-MLB ready high ceiling talent but the Braves consistently produce major leaguers from their farm system and they look like they’ll continue to do so. My method shows the Phillies being underrated but I’m not impressed with their collection of prospects by any means. Given that they are deriving most of their points from 3-star prospects, I’m willing to assign caveat #2 to this discrepancy. Either way they are a bottom third farm system. Given that the Royals are the only team to make it down into 1-star prospects and that they aren’t a top heavy system, I’d be tempted to put them dead last while Goldstein ranked them 22nd. That seems odd to me and I don’t have a good explanation for it.

Anywho, none of this should be intended as a slight towards KG, whom I have the utmost respect for. Just trying to evaluate the consistency of his work. Hold his feet to the fire, so to speak.

14 Responses to “Kevin Goldstein Organizational Rankings”

  1. Interesting analysis, Az.

    I think that, at the moment, the Royals are being buoyed up far too much by the presence of Mike Moustakas. The system is pretty lousy, but all the analysts right now are super enamoured of this one kid, and they’re artificially knocking the Royals higher up their lists because of it.

    Just a thought.

  2. A flaw in this method (which in general I think is excellent) is the artificial cutoff after 11 players. To me any player who qualifies as at least a two-star prospect has reasonable chances of being useful in the majors. A 2-star is unlikely ever to be a real stud, and may not make the Show at all, but enough do contribute that IMO a system with 1 5-star, 3 4-stars, 3 3-stars and 15 2-stars (OK, so I exaggerate…) is clearly better than one with 1 5-star, 3 4-stars, 5 3-stars and 2 2-stars. I’m not sure whether it’s coincidence or not that I consider the Cardinals’ farm system to be relatively rich in those 2-star guys.

    Maybe the “best” methodology is to total the value for all the prospects rating 2 stars or more. It would be interesting to see how the rankings change. Kevin G, if you’re reading this, are these data that you’d have easily at your fingertips? No need to worry about names or analyses, just raw numbers. Thanks…

  3. Minor comment on the points system: just eyeballing the numbers, it seems that ‘3-star’ guys are nearly twice as common as ‘4-star’ prospects in KG’s world. So if anything the 10-7-5… point system might actually not give enough weight to those elite prospects.

  4. Whoops - I meant to compare the number of 2-star and 3-star prospects (not 3 and 4).

    Not sure it even changes much, but seems strange that a system with more potential stars would find itself behind a deep system with more ‘average’ prospects (consider Yankees behind the Brewers, for example).

  5. Great analysis.

    I’d be interested to hear what Goldstein’s feedback on your work would be, AZ. Any way you could drop him a line?

    Also, has KG ever established what his criteria are for his “star” rankings? If it’s just his subjective opinion and all, that’s fine. I’m just curious what differentiates, say, a high 3 star and a low 4 star.

  6. The dreaded east coast bias! It rears it’s ugly head with the Red Sox and Yankees!

  7. I think this somewhat backs up my earlier assertion that the Yankee and Red Sox prospects are being overrated.

  8. Nice little Allen Craig writeup from John Sickels:

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2008/3/11/125558/822#commenttop

    His take is similar to ours here that Craig may not have tools that wow you but he has been productive nonetheless.

  9. Allen Craig is the Unsung Prospect over at Minor League Ball. It doesn’t fit in this post, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

  10. The problem with this analysis is that Goldstein only ranks 11 propsects. One team could have 10 additional #3 prospects and it wouldn´t show up here so it is almost comparing apples and oranges. The only thing you are doing is showing how having top propsects correlates to overall rankings. To say a team is “underated” by this analysis doesn´t make any sense to me. They are what they are — it is simply a correlation that you are looking at.

  11. To say a team is “underated” by this analysis doesn´t make any sense to me.

    A team would be underrated because the assumption that the method makes is after the Top 11 all things are equal. Obviously, we know all things aren’t equal and a team like the Rays who may have a few more 3-star prospects would be underrated relative to teams that have already exahusted theirs in the Top 11. The example you give is an obvious hyperbole but it’s one that I recognized in the caveats.

    I’m not using the term underrated in the general sense, but in the sense that relative to KG’s organizational rankings where he’s taking the whole system into account presumably, you could see a club being underrated by my method.

  12. Nick, Ryan…not to toot my own horn, but when sickels was asking for ideas i suggested-

    http://minorleagueball.com/comments/2008/3/7/174642/2921/5#5

    maybe it’ll be a regular feature going forward. :)

  13. Toot away, Erik. I think it’s a great idea.

  14. Awesome erik! I have been suggesting Rick Ankiel for the Not a Rookie segment.

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