• Amaury Marti Watch

    Amaury Marti is currently hitting .424/.509/.633 in 39 games for the Mexican Red Devils of the Mexican League, also known as Liga de Amaury Cazana. Bud Selig ordered the Cardinals to banish him to there, in fear of the major leagues losing competitive balance.

    Amaury also refuses to accept the watch curse. He has the power to curse, and the power to bless.

  •  

    February 2008
    M T W T F S S
    « Jan   Mar »
     123
    45678910
    11121314151617
    18192021222324
    2526272829  
  • RSS FirstInning.com: St. Louis Cardinals Daily Report

  • My del.icio.us

  • Flickr Photos

    lynn

    Shane peterson

    Louisville_Zack_Pitts_

    brettwallaceswing

    Jason Buursma

    More Photos
  • Visitors

    • 1,427,779 hits
  • Header design

  • Google Reader or Homepage
    Add to My Yahoo!
    Subscribe with Bloglines
    Subscribe in NewsGator Online

    Add to My AOL
    Add to Technorati Favorites!

Pitching Health, Part 1: Q and A with Will Carroll

Will Carroll is on the great team of writers at Baseball Prospectus and provides insight into player health and injury recovery.  He was kind enough to answer a few questions about keeping young pitchers healthy.

Your research into pitcher injuries has led you to the Verducci Rule, can you briefly explain what the Rule is?

I originally called it the “Rule of 30″ but I found out that Tom Verducci had been doing this for years.  He calls it the Year After Effect, but I think that my blanking on him doing this –I know I must have read it along the way–gives me more impetus to credit him for the work.  Essentially, it’s that an increase in innings by more than 30, year over year, is a negative indicator for health and effectiveness. 

You have said that minor league innings do not translate exactly for Verducci Rule purposes, but can we assume that the basic premise of the Rule still applies to pitching prospects in the minor leagues?

It should.  I’m as confused by the results as anyone.  I thought using Davenport Translations would clear up the problem, but it didn’t.  I haven’t looked at level to level changes, but I’d hesitate in saying anything there because of the findings I had from minors to majors. 

Teams have become increasingly attuned to the health of pitching prospects and have implemented specific restrictions in some situations (for example, the limitation on sliders from Felix Hernandez and the “Joba Rules” for Joba Chamberlain).  Are there any guidelines that you think clubs should uniformly hold when it comes to using their pitching prospects?

No, I think there’s general guidelines, but I think each individual is different.  What I’d like to see is a logical, individual development system that allows them to slowly work their way up, to focus on the things they need to do to advance and get better.  I did an article on the logical progression at BP, but there needs to be a lot more.

Traditionally it has been assumed that pitchers with smaller frames don’t hold up well to the strain of pitching - have you found that body type is a significant factor in injury risk to pitchers?

It’s not about body, it’s about joint loads.  A skinny kid with good mechanics and stable joints is going to hold up longer.  I think once we know more about this, when we get every pitcher in the video analysis database, we’ll understand why some of these “freaks” hold up.  All things being equal, a stronger, more stable athlete will hold up longer, which is why size has always been an issue.

Speaking about mechanics, the Cardinals held a “mini-camp” this spring for several of their top pitching prospects and brought in a consultant who stressed certain bio-mechanic constants in the pitching motions of several all time great pitchers.  Do you think there are constants that pitchers should strive to emulate, or is the matter of finding a healthy pitching motion more dependent on the unique attributes of each individual pitcher?

Brent Strom is phenomenal and Cards fans should be excited that he’s part of the organization.  He’s experienced and progressive (and, for full disclosure, a friend).  With he and Dyar Miller in charge, I think the Cards will see great results.  There are some constants, some things you have to see, but we’re still learning and finding ways to use what we know.  I think we need to work on making each pitcher the best they can be individually rather than trying to change them to fit what we reverse engineered.  I’m more interested in making Anthony Reyes the best Anthony Reyes he can be more than making him pitch like Roger Clemens or Greg Maddux.

Teams have “organizational philosophies” when it comes to certain aspects of playing the game (Oakland pushes OBP, the Cardinals push the sinkerball), do teams, or should teams, have an organizational philosophy when it comes to the health of players and the treatments performed by the training staff?

No.  While I like the concept of the “Dodger Way” or whatever, I think letting each individual know what’s expected, what’s good and bad, what they need to do to advance, what their strengths and weaknesses are is better.  We all have annual reviews at work, so why don’t players?  Sure, there are things you push because you’re good at them.  Give Duncan some older players like Carpenter or Dave Stewart and he gets great results, so why not use it?  Just don’t get married to any idea… except winning.

7 Responses to “Pitching Health, Part 1: Q and A with Will Carroll”

  1. Wonderful interview. I agree wholeheartedly about what he said in regards to Reyes.

  2. The “Rule of 30″–I have heard it described as the 20% barrier–is a really important guideline, people totally underestimate this concept. My major concern with it though have always been with how to establish the baseline for high-school pitching prospects using this rule. I was just wondering, if Will happens to check in, generally what innings count should be used for high school prospects advancin from the high school games to rookie ball.

  3. Think they will ever raise the mound again? I know the theory is a higher mound may save a few shoulders here and there.

  4. What I wonder about with the Verducci Rule is how a team should apply it in the playoffs.

    Would you ever shut down one of your best young pitchers in the playoffs, since there’s a statistical trend that suggests more innings will cause lasting damage to his arm?

    Or do you do whatever it takes to win now, fully understanding the risk to the pitcher’s health?

  5. Nice interview; thanks to Will for doing it.

    You do realise that O’Leary’s going to flip out when he reads that Clemens/Maddux comment.

  6. I understand the concept of the Verducci rule, but I really can’t understand the reasons behind it. Is it that pitching “x” innings builds muscles or strengthens tendons that can’t be built/strengthened any other way? Or that pitchers “learn” to pitch while tired or worn out?

    If the former, it seems that a low-impact method of “exercising” whatever causes this effect to happen in the off-season would be something every single team would be looking for…

  7. Maddux:

    I wonder what that guy has done from age 7-41? He has only hit the DL one time and it was the 15 day DL for a sore back.

    Is arm helth a genetic thing? I just don’t get it, but if it is all about preperation I would do exactly what Mr. Maddux does.

Leave a Reply