Comments on: Edmonds traded for Padres 3B David Freese

By: Martin

Martin — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:06:37 +0000

Event though Colby is young, I believe he has more experience than Ankiel in playing CF…
Quit platooning Duncan, let’s see what he can do on a daily basis in LF. Let Ankiel with his rifle arm play RF and let’s throw Rasmus into CF… I think he is ready.

By: haltz

haltz — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:52:05 +0000

Well, if tossing the ball down the middle comes at the expense of 11 taters in 60 innings, then I’m not sure this is a good thing. I also have sample size concerns about the 60 innings, so this doesn’t suggest “evidence” to me.

And yes, there are plenty of examples of players that have had their peaks, or a nice turnaround in St. Louis. Part of that is great defenses and targeting rebound candidates, but surely Duncan has had a positive effect.

Williams certainly had a great year by any measure in 2002, but he also was blessed with a .256 BABIP, and way outperformed his 3.83 FIP. The rest of his time as a Cardinal his ERA reflected how well he was pitching. There’s some smoke and mirrors there.

By: Bob

Bob — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:29:03 +0000

I certainly see your point re: Kip Wells, and I’m the last one to claim Dave Duncan can fix *everyone*, but all the evidence we have to go on suggests he’s already markedly improved Pineiro’s control (the 40/12 K/BB ratio JP posted with the Birds easily surpasses even his best previous numbers), and let’s not forget that Dunc got more out of Todd Wellemeyer last year than he’s ever shown before, as well (ERA+ of 121 as a starter, 141 overall).

Dave Duncan is no miracle worker, but when there’s already evidence that he’s changed a pitcher for the better, I’m not going to doubt it. (For instance, Woody Williams in his first 40 Cardinal starts had an ERA+ of 170, and he had shown nothing like that before he came to St. Louis. Duncan basically turned Woody into Pedro Martinez in less than a week, so I’m keeping the faith….)

By: haltz

haltz — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:32:11 +0000

“Like Darryl Kile, Chris Carpenter, Woody Williams, and others, Pineiro is a veteran righty who’s shown both genuine ability and durability before. Specifically, in 2002/2003 Pineiro threw over 400 innings with a #2 starter-quality cumulative ERA+ of 122 (by comparison, Adam Wainwright posted a 119 ERA+ last year).”

That’s a lifetime ago. You could say the same thing about Kip Wells, almost exactly in fact. Kip also had 60 similar innings towards the end of last year!

If Duncan is an asset, then you get pitchers that work well woth him on the cheap. Pineiro’s 140 IP in 2004 are the last time he was close to a respectable starting pitcher. He’s not the same guy, and paying above market rates (remember Kip Wells is basically identical) for a reclamation project defeats the entire purpose of having a one-trick pony magician of a pitching coach.

By: JimH

JimH — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:06:34 +0000

I think the big winner in the deal is Ludwick. I really like how he plays and he along with Ankiel and of course Pujols are the 3 guys I can’t wait to see hit.
I think the team has high hopes that Ryan can measure up and just signed Izturis for security.
I would love to see the Cards take a flyer on Prior and Colon. If either one came through even close to what they can do it would be a far cry better than trading youth or even bringing back Matt Morris as much as I used to love him.

By: Bob

Bob — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:16:40 +0000

Jimmy would be taking time away from one of three outfielders, depending which OF position he plays: (1)Chris Duncan, (2)Rick Ankiel, or (3)Colby Rasmus (my post from yesterday afternoon went into . All three figure to provide more offense (maybe a lot more) than Jim did last year. Sure, Edmonds *might* bounce back to at least his ‘06 level…but a 37-year-old ballplayer who’s hitting has declined in back-to-back-to-back seasons isn’t a good bet to get substantially better–and, of course, Jimmy has missed large chunks of playing time in each of the past two years.

The saved money will presumably be used to pay an additional starting pitcher. Ownership was stubborn & cheap last off-season (remember Bill DeWitt’s sworn promise 12 months ago of a $100-105MM payroll?); we can only hope they’ve learned their lesson. Whether it’s Colon, Clement, Benson, Fogg, or whomever, the Cards *must* add a starter. (Sorry if any of those guys have already signed elsewhere. Haven’t read the sportspage much the last few days )

By: lawless

lawless — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:36:00 +0000

My money is on Edmonds bouncing back this season and the Cards regretting this move. The basic premise is… why do we need the $6M and who does Edmonds take an opportunity away from? Seems to me the answer is primarily Skip Schumaker.

The other side of the coin is that if JED asked for it, then I’d say its right all around. He is a HOF and his number should be retired right now (along with Mac) in my mind…

By: shaneo69

shaneo69 — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:39:39 +0000

This is going to be my 3rd year with season tickets in the Left/Centerfield bleachers, and I’m going to miss seeing Edmonds tip his cap to the fans as the Cardinals took the field in the 1st inning while the bleacher fans chanted “Jim-my, Jim-my”. Just when you thought his career was over in mid-2006 due to post-concussion syndrome, he came back and led them to a World Series championship. Thanks Jim.

At least now we have a lead-off hitter, whether it be Skip, Barton, or Colby. Our line-up should be better this year because of that.

With A. Craig being entrenched at Springfield for at least the beginning of the year, I wonder if the Cards will try to start Freese at Memphis, because of his advanced age. After two months, if it’s not working, they could probably switch him and Craig.

By: Bob

Bob — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:35:49 +0000

I’m drifting from the premise of the thread, but just wanted to chime in a bit on Pineiro, ’cause I’m confused by the skepticism. Seems to me JP is a perfect fit for Dave Duncan’s Pitcher Transformation Project ™.

Like Darryl Kile, Chris Carpenter, Woody Williams, and others, Pineiro is a veteran righty who’s shown both genuine ability and durability before. Specifically, in 2002/2003 Pineiro threw over 400 innings with a #2 starter-quality cumulative ERA+ of 122 (by comparison, Adam Wainwright posted a 119 ERA+ last year).

After joining the Birds last year, JP (who’s only two years older than “young” hurlers Dan Haren & Joe Blanton) posted a better K/BB ratio than any previous point in his career–an *extremely* positive indicator of real improvement.

If anything, I’d guess the ERA+ of 111 Pineiro put up for the Cards last year is a conservative estimate of what he’ll accompish over the next two seasons. At $13MM for two years, Pineiro could be the pitching steal of the off-season.

By: Nick

Nick — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 16:01:25 +0000

My 2 cents:

Rasmus is ready. His numbers compare favorably to what Hunter Pence put up in AA the year before last and we all saw that he was ready last year…in fact the Astros really hurt themselves by not starting the year with Pence on the club.

Furthermore, I think we would all agree that Andy LaRoche is ready…right? Well Rasmus was just as good as LaRoche with Team USA. In fact, one might say that in the leadoff role, Rasmus was better.

As far as Freese goes, I really like his stats. Good OBP, decent power, obviously has some speed (as evidenced by the triples). If he learns to elevate the ball, he will be very dangerous. I like that the team is targeting guys who will take a walk. Barton and Freese both have very good plate discipline.

Finally, it is hard to see Jimmy go. I had hoped he would finish his career as a Cardinal. However, while he has hinted that this is his last year, he has not announced his intentions. He may play longer and it’s not as if the Cardinals were going to hold back Rasmus beyond this year…barring the unforeseen.