Comments on: Breaking news: Mozeliak the new GM, not Antonetti http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/ Baseball's Future in the Gateway City Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:22:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: proathlete http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9182 proathlete Fri, 02 Nov 2007 00:14:17 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9182 I cannot deny that Jeff Luhnow and Chris Antonetti would have been a “match made in heaven”, but like in most marriages, two of the same kind could have been a bit too aggressive, especially when statistical analysis continues to face tremendous skepticism and even animosity (ie. Jocketty and maybe…..La Russa?) Even if statistics continue to threaten these professional “old timers” in baseball, I have to admit that relying on cold, hard numbers rather than human instinct seems soulless. But how many times was our own intuition wrong? Bear in mind, that Mr. Luhnow and Mr. Antonetti (whom I prefer to refer as instead of “geeks” or “sabermetric geeks”) deserve the respect and admiration that we continuously emit through blogs and other sites such as this one, must also, in some way or another, rely on their instincts. We speak of them as if they are oblivious to what we are all sharing here, as well as what is said in the media, and as if they are “aliens” that have just landed onto this earth to “save” our favorite sport in the world!!! Just because they have the ability that most of us lack, the challenge these talented young executives face is the lack, or thereof, being “persuaders”. This is where Mr. Bill DeWitt enters and gave Mr. John Mozeliak the GM position. INTEGRATION!!! He will continue to be an asset to the organization as he has in the last decade, but with Mr. Luhnow’s expert guidance, even the most gifted among us can get better…and the rewards of doing it properly are great! In short, just because Mr. DeWitt was unable to recruit another “whiz kid” (Antonetti) to join the family, (because of this, and ONLY this: "it happens all the time, in every industry --- a hotshot up-n-comer gets wooed by an outside employer, lands an offer, takes it back to his current boss, and extracts a promotion (or the promise of one) and a bigger salary. that's all that happened here. it's not as if antonetti spurned the cardinals in order to wait for a more attractive job with some other team. he chose to stay with the organization he knows and is familiar with, in the city where he and his family already have roots. can't hardly blame him for that.")…does not mean that we are in bad shape at all. What is important, as is to any organization, is that we all share the same vision. And by our continued support and loyalty as fans to the Cardinals organization, we will all help build a #1 World Class Team! I cannot deny that Jeff Luhnow and Chris Antonetti would have been a “match made in heaven”, but like in most marriages, two of the same kind could have been a bit too aggressive, especially when statistical analysis continues to face tremendous skepticism and even animosity (ie. Jocketty and maybe…..La Russa?)
Even if statistics continue to threaten these professional “old timers” in baseball, I have to admit that relying on cold, hard numbers rather than human instinct seems soulless. But how many times was our own intuition wrong? Bear in mind, that Mr. Luhnow and Mr. Antonetti (whom I prefer to refer as instead of “geeks” or “sabermetric geeks”) deserve the respect and admiration that we continuously emit through blogs and other sites such as this one, must also, in some way or another, rely on their instincts. We speak of them as if they are oblivious to what we are all sharing here, as well as what is said in the media, and as if they are “aliens” that have just landed onto this earth to “save” our favorite sport in the world!!! Just because they have the ability that most of us lack, the challenge these talented young executives face is the lack, or thereof, being “persuaders”. This is where Mr. Bill DeWitt enters and gave Mr. John Mozeliak the GM position. INTEGRATION!!! He will continue to be an asset to the organization as he has in the last decade, but with Mr. Luhnow’s expert guidance, even the most gifted among us can get better…and the rewards of doing it properly are great!
In short, just because Mr. DeWitt was unable to recruit another “whiz kid” (Antonetti) to join the family, (because of this, and ONLY this: “it happens all the time, in every industry — a hotshot up-n-comer gets wooed by an outside employer, lands an offer, takes it back to his current boss, and extracts a promotion (or the promise of one) and a bigger salary. that’s all that happened here. it’s not as if antonetti spurned the cardinals in order to wait for a more attractive job with some other team. he chose to stay with the organization he knows and is familiar with, in the city where he and his family already have roots. can’t hardly blame him for that.”)…does not mean that we are in bad shape at all. What is important, as is to any organization, is that we all share the same vision. And by our continued support and loyalty as fans to the Cardinals organization, we will all help build a #1 World Class Team!

]]> By: New Pagodi http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9133 New Pagodi Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:01:52 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9133 @ Big Red: I wish I had said “improving the team” instead of “player development”. I don’t think Miles or Taguchi bring much value to a team. Taguchi posted an OPS of .718 and a VORP of 5.5 and Miles posted an OPS of .676 and a VORP of 2.7. Those are both barely above replacement level, and moreover I doubt either of them will be as good next year. Taguchi is at an age where players typically decline and last year was essentially a career year for Miles. It should not be that hard to find a better replacement for either player, and I’m not saying it has to be a Cardinal minor leaguer. I guess you feel they bring other things to the table. You said Taguchi plays “all three outfield spots”. Well he doesn’t play any of them well any more. He has the weakest arm of any of the current outfielders and misplayed several fly balls last year. You also mentioned his ability to “hit lefties”. His OPS split against lhp and rhp last year was .760/ .674. He’s not exactly a leftie masher and again it shouldn’t be that hard to find someone better. As for Eckstein, I agree with everything you said. The 3 players I named are TLR favorites and he will probably demand that they be on the team next year. But if Mozeliak is really committed to improving the team, he will not bow to those demands but instead go in another direction. @ Big Red:

I wish I had said “improving the team” instead of “player development”. I don’t think Miles or Taguchi bring much value to a team. Taguchi posted an OPS of .718 and a VORP of 5.5 and Miles posted an OPS of .676 and a VORP of 2.7. Those are both barely above replacement level, and moreover I doubt either of them will be as good next year. Taguchi is at an age where players typically decline and last year was essentially a career year for Miles. It should not be that hard to find a better replacement for either player, and I’m not saying it has to be a Cardinal minor leaguer.

I guess you feel they bring other things to the table. You said Taguchi plays “all three outfield spots”. Well he doesn’t play any of them well any more. He has the weakest arm of any of the current outfielders and misplayed several fly balls last year. You also mentioned his ability to “hit lefties”. His OPS split against lhp and rhp last year was .760/ .674. He’s not exactly a leftie masher and again it shouldn’t be that hard to find someone better.

As for Eckstein, I agree with everything you said.

The 3 players I named are TLR favorites and he will probably demand that they be on the team next year. But if Mozeliak is really committed to improving the team, he will not bow to those demands but instead go in another direction.

]]> By: Chris http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9115 Chris Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:08:50 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9115 I truly am disappointed and I am one of the biggest advocates of the fact that the Cards have been REALLY good during the TLR and Jocketty era. However, the disappointment of not getting a guy like Antonetti is pretty high for me. I'm not saying that Mo isn't capable, but comparing player development between Antonetti and him is like comparing a Benz to a Ford. That said I don't think that Mo will struggle with ensuring that the Cards remain competitive on the MLB level through free agent signings and possibly the trade market. I just hope that the 03 and 04 drafts aren't a sign of the future for our player development. I really hope that DeWitt knows what he is doing here. I truly am disappointed and I am one of the biggest advocates of the fact that the Cards have been REALLY good during the TLR and Jocketty era. However, the disappointment of not getting a guy like Antonetti is pretty high for me. I’m not saying that Mo isn’t capable, but comparing player development between Antonetti and him is like comparing a Benz to a Ford. That said I don’t think that Mo will struggle with ensuring that the Cards remain competitive on the MLB level through free agent signings and possibly the trade market. I just hope that the 03 and 04 drafts aren’t a sign of the future for our player development. I really hope that DeWitt knows what he is doing here.

]]> By: Big Red http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9114 Big Red Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:55:22 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9114 New Padogi, I'm not so sure I agree with you when you say "How he handles Miles, Eck, and Taguchi should tell us if he’s really committed to player development or is just going to be TLR’s puppet." They've got to field a team this year and I think we're all in agreement that with the current state of the starting pitching (injuries, etc.) and the already in place payroll, this might not be the best year to take a run. However, just becaus he might play AAA guys, doesn't mean they're any good or are going to get better. Player development starts out with guys that have ability. Simply being young doesn't cut the cake. The way I see it, the team must be at least competitive (which shouldn't be too difficult) and Taguchi's ability to hit lefties and play all three outfield spots is pretty valuabe. Especially since there really isn't another player in the organization who fills those shoes. Edmonds, Dunc, Ankiel, JRod, Skip are all lefties and Ankiel is the only one who showed a real ability to hit lefties....that is until the whole HGH thing surfaced. After that, he couldn't hit one of my fastballs. Miles is iffy imo and if they ended up bringing him in as a bench player, I'd be fine with that. Eckstein is another matter all together. He's a "starting SS". Although, I see him more as a 2nd baseman, but that's besides the point. I would rather see him go since any deal with him would be at least 3 years. That's way too long and would be a huge mistake. The other two guys, you could sign for 1 year each and then be done with them next year when there's someone else to fill the spot....hopefully. New Padogi,

I’m not so sure I agree with you when you say “How he handles Miles, Eck, and Taguchi should tell us if he’s really committed to player development or is just going to be TLR’s puppet.”

They’ve got to field a team this year and I think we’re all in agreement that with the current state of the starting pitching (injuries, etc.) and the already in place payroll, this might not be the best year to take a run. However, just becaus he might play AAA guys, doesn’t mean they’re any good or are going to get better. Player development starts out with guys that have ability. Simply being young doesn’t cut the cake.

The way I see it, the team must be at least competitive (which shouldn’t be too difficult) and Taguchi’s ability to hit lefties and play all three outfield spots is pretty valuabe. Especially since there really isn’t another player in the organization who fills those shoes. Edmonds, Dunc, Ankiel, JRod, Skip are all lefties and Ankiel is the only one who showed a real ability to hit lefties….that is until the whole HGH thing surfaced. After that, he couldn’t hit one of my fastballs.

Miles is iffy imo and if they ended up bringing him in as a bench player, I’d be fine with that.

Eckstein is another matter all together. He’s a “starting SS”. Although, I see him more as a 2nd baseman, but that’s besides the point. I would rather see him go since any deal with him would be at least 3 years. That’s way too long and would be a huge mistake. The other two guys, you could sign for 1 year each and then be done with them next year when there’s someone else to fill the spot….hopefully.

]]> By: erik http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9111 erik Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:41:32 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9111 i really wanted to do that naked jig, too. more good news. mozeliak sounds and looks like Moe Slyzak. http://www.usatoday.com/life/gallery/simpsons/moe.jpg i really wanted to do that naked jig, too. more good news. mozeliak sounds and looks like Moe Slyzak. http://www.usatoday.com/life/gallery/simpsons/moe.jpg

]]> By: cardinal70 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9110 cardinal70 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:25:37 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9110 I hope that Mozeliak does a great job. That said, it's a great disappointment that Antonetti felt he wouldn't have enough control and stepped away. (I know, there are other factors involved with Cleveland, but I'm not sure that the control issues weren't the deal breaker.) It looks, on the face of it, as the same old same old. Though in the silver lining category, no Eric doing a naked jig! I hope that Mozeliak does a great job.

That said, it’s a great disappointment that Antonetti felt he wouldn’t have enough control and stepped away. (I know, there are other factors involved with Cleveland, but I’m not sure that the control issues weren’t the deal breaker.) It looks, on the face of it, as the same old same old.

Though in the silver lining category, no Eric doing a naked jig!

]]> By: New Pagodi http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9108 New Pagodi Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:37:46 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9108 Vorgm? Isn't that something you grow to feed to cows? I've decided to take a wait and see approach with Mozeliak. How he handles Miles, Eck, and Taguchi should tell us if he's really committed to player development or is just going to be TLR's puppet. Vorgm? Isn’t that something you grow to feed to cows?

I’ve decided to take a wait and see approach with Mozeliak. How he handles Miles, Eck, and Taguchi should tell us if he’s really committed to player development or is just going to be TLR’s puppet.

]]> By: Jeff http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9107 Jeff Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:11:30 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9107 Brett - I agree with you. A fresh face would be an obvious switch. But hopefully Mo gets along with Luhnow and we can get our front office all on the same page. Ludnow and Antonetti had the same philosophy so we know we are not far off from where we want to be philosophy-wise. Let's start by offering Eck arbitration and then letting him walk. Brett - I agree with you.
A fresh face would be an obvious switch.
But hopefully Mo gets along with Luhnow and we can get our front office all on the same page.
Ludnow and Antonetti had the same philosophy so we know we are not far off from where we want to be philosophy-wise.
Let’s start by offering Eck arbitration and then letting him walk.

]]> By: BigJawnMize http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9106 BigJawnMize Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:10:51 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9106 Jeff- You totally missed the boat. The stat is VORGM... -BJM Jeff-

You totally missed the boat. The stat is VORGM…

-BJM

]]> By: Bodagler http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9103 Bodagler Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:45:13 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/10/31/breaking-new-mozeliak-the-new-gm-not-antonetti/#comment-9103 oops. 2 of the last 4 years oops. 2 of the last 4 years

]]>