Comments on: My 2 cents regarding Ankiel-gate http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/ Baseball's Future in the Gateway City Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:29:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: siddfynch http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6883 siddfynch Sun, 09 Sep 2007 15:01:43 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6883 Erik, I think the rest of your points are on the money. Too much left to learn about Ankiel's usage to know whether he's a good or bad guy in all this. perhaps he dropped it once it became illegal, and we should all applaud him. Perhaps the company dropped him, and we should applaud them. Who knows? Richard, I am not sure what your argument is. That HGH does not confer a strength benefit, and should therefore be legal? Or that we should overlook it in baseball, since it is overlooked in football? I wouldn't support either of these arguments as a baseball fan. Erik, I think the rest of your points are on the money. Too much left to learn about Ankiel’s usage to know whether he’s a good or bad guy in all this. perhaps he dropped it once it became illegal, and we should all applaud him. Perhaps the company dropped him, and we should applaud them. Who knows?

Richard, I am not sure what your argument is. That HGH does not confer a strength benefit, and should therefore be legal? Or that we should overlook it in baseball, since it is overlooked in football? I wouldn’t support either of these arguments as a baseball fan.

]]> By: lopey http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6861 lopey Sun, 09 Sep 2007 00:17:12 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6861 Richard, thank you very much for the input. One other thing regarding Celzic's article...well more regarding his point...doesn't ANYONE remember the Carolina Panthers team who won the Superbowl (or went to it and lost, i can't remember) and half the team ADMITTED to being juiced up, but no one seemed to care and i can't even remember what the hell that team did. Richard, thank you very much for the input. One other thing regarding Celzic’s article…well more regarding his point…doesn’t ANYONE remember the Carolina Panthers team who won the Superbowl (or went to it and lost, i can’t remember) and half the team ADMITTED to being juiced up, but no one seemed to care and i can’t even remember what the hell that team did.

]]> By: Richard Rosen http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6849 Richard Rosen Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:16:57 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6849 I am a physician. HgH is NOT an anabolic steroid. I prescribe HgH for many of my clients for recovery from bone/muscle/tendon related injuries and/or surgery. It does not inflate your muscles, nor shrink your testicles. It does not turn you into Superman, as steroids did to Bonds and McGwire. It does not bring to the table the multitude of destructive consequences that steroids do (Giambi's very rare tumor in 2004 is a common occurrence with steroids). HgH will not make you a better hitter. It certainly did nothing for Rick Ankiel's pitching career--which is when he was taking them. Moreover as Mike Celzic says in <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20641776/" rel="nofollow">today's column</a>--why is baseball singled out like no other sport for use of such benign substances, and even for steroid use--when other sports get a total pass? Case in point--Rodney Harrison of the Pats, who gets a 4-game suspension and then goes on his merry way. Nobody cares about that. Only baseball. Very unfair in my mind. I think Americans should tell the sports jihadists, er I mean "journalists" to shut up about this nonsense and go on enjoying Rick Ankiel's marvelous story. I am a physician. HgH is NOT an anabolic steroid. I prescribe HgH for many of my clients for recovery from bone/muscle/tendon related injuries and/or surgery. It does not inflate your muscles, nor shrink your testicles. It does not turn you into Superman, as steroids did to Bonds and McGwire. It does not bring to the table the multitude of destructive consequences that steroids do (Giambi’s very rare tumor in 2004 is a common occurrence with steroids). HgH will not make you a better hitter. It certainly did nothing for Rick Ankiel’s pitching career–which is when he was taking them.

Moreover as Mike Celzic says in today’s column–why is baseball singled out like no other sport for use of such benign substances, and even for steroid use–when other sports get a total pass? Case in point–Rodney Harrison of the Pats, who gets a 4-game suspension and then goes on his merry way. Nobody cares about that. Only baseball. Very unfair in my mind. I think Americans should tell the sports jihadists, er I mean “journalists” to shut up about this nonsense and go on enjoying Rick Ankiel’s marvelous story.

]]> By: erik http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6846 erik Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:54:17 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6846 Sidd...what about the article at the P-D? it says essentially the same thing, there there is little to no benefit. beside, the point is he had a prescription from a doc and was using the HGH to help the healing process for his elbow. And it was not against the rules at the time. We don't know of any usage beyond that point, so for people to come out and label him a cheater doesn't make any sense to me at all. I highly doubt he's hitting the homers he's hitting right now because of HGH or steroids. Why can't we just enjoy the athlete? Why do we have to label him a cheat for something he did years ago, in another part of his career, that wasn't against any law or any MLB rule? It just seems clear to me (no pun intended). I don't understand all the confusion around Rick, and certainly not the condemnation. It's angering me too, and frankly I don't even want to watch baseball for a while because that's all we will here from announcers, fans and media. Sucks, because since he's been up the team has really turned around and he's made the team enjoyable to watch again. It is sad his story is getting ruined because of suspicion and the attitude that one is guilty until proven innocent. Albert had this junk around him last season, you didn't see as big of an outcry, and it turned out to be a bunch of nothing. This is so much ado about NOTHING, imo and I just don't get the outrage for one iota. Sidd…what about the article at the P-D? it says essentially the same thing, there there is little to no benefit. beside, the point is he had a prescription from a doc and was using the HGH to help the healing process for his elbow. And it was not against the rules at the time. We don’t know of any usage beyond that point, so for people to come out and label him a cheater doesn’t make any sense to me at all. I highly doubt he’s hitting the homers he’s hitting right now because of HGH or steroids. Why can’t we just enjoy the athlete? Why do we have to label him a cheat for something he did years ago, in another part of his career, that wasn’t against any law or any MLB rule?

It just seems clear to me (no pun intended). I don’t understand all the confusion around Rick, and certainly not the condemnation. It’s angering me too, and frankly I don’t even want to watch baseball for a while because that’s all we will here from announcers, fans and media. Sucks, because since he’s been up the team has really turned around and he’s made the team enjoyable to watch again. It is sad his story is getting ruined because of suspicion and the attitude that one is guilty until proven innocent. Albert had this junk around him last season, you didn’t see as big of an outcry, and it turned out to be a bunch of nothing. This is so much ado about NOTHING, imo and I just don’t get the outrage for one iota.

]]> By: siddfynch http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6844 siddfynch Sat, 08 Sep 2007 15:42:50 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6844 "Its", not "It's" Superfluous use of the possessive...I hate it when others do that. See how angry this subject makes me? My grammar goes out the window :). “Its”, not “It’s”

Superfluous use of the possessive…I hate it when others do that. See how angry this subject makes me? My grammar goes out the window :) .

]]> By: siddfynch http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6843 siddfynch Sat, 08 Sep 2007 15:40:57 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6843 Many of the points I'm reading on Ankiel are certainy open to debate. But please stop quoting the Slate and Sabernomics articles as authoritative or conclusive. They are most certainly not - they are as much opinion pieces by non-scientists as anything, and when invoked, they make it appear as though the "'invoker" has already made up their mind and is fishing around for sources - any sources - to support their claim. That is a legalistic approach, not a scientific or objective one. A totally different read of the Slate article could conclude "The author lays out a few tests that have shown HGH to not increase muscle mass, but agrees that it does affect the body in other ways that could conceivably help an athlete, or in such sensitive ways that we have not yet been able to design a test with suitable power to detect it's effects." Seriously, these 2 articles are quoted repeatedly at VEB, John Sickels, etc., and they are just not that convincing for any one cause. Not enough to use as the crutch that many people want them to be. Many of the points I’m reading on Ankiel are certainy open to debate. But please stop quoting the Slate and Sabernomics articles as authoritative or conclusive. They are most certainly not - they are as much opinion pieces by non-scientists as anything, and when invoked, they make it appear as though the “‘invoker” has already made up their mind and is fishing around for sources - any sources - to support their claim. That is a legalistic approach, not a scientific or objective one.

A totally different read of the Slate article could conclude “The author lays out a few tests that have shown HGH to not increase muscle mass, but agrees that it does affect the body in other ways that could conceivably help an athlete, or in such sensitive ways that we have not yet been able to design a test with suitable power to detect it’s effects.”

Seriously, these 2 articles are quoted repeatedly at VEB, John Sickels, etc., and they are just not that convincing for any one cause. Not enough to use as the crutch that many people want them to be.

]]> By: Lou Schuler http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6836 Lou Schuler Sat, 08 Sep 2007 11:31:17 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6836 I have no hands-on experience with performance-enhancing drugs, but I've read a lot about them, written a few articles, and talked to lots of people in the strength and conditioning world. I know the scientific studies don't show any effect for GH in terms of performance enhancement, but you can't ethically study the drugs in the amounts that athletes take. Athletes have been using these drugs for a long time. If they didn't work, they wouldn't continue to use them. What Carlos said above is what I've heard a lot -- many players use steroids in the off-season, when they aren't tested, and GH during the season to help them maintain their strength and muscle mass, and to recover faster from injuries. (All sports are injurious, as we all know -- athletes are always recovering from something.) That doesn't mean Ankiel did anything wrong at the time he did it, just that we're kidding ourselves if we believe these drugs don't have performance-enhancing effects. I have no hands-on experience with performance-enhancing drugs, but I’ve read a lot about them, written a few articles, and talked to lots of people in the strength and conditioning world.

I know the scientific studies don’t show any effect for GH in terms of performance enhancement, but you can’t ethically study the drugs in the amounts that athletes take.

Athletes have been using these drugs for a long time. If they didn’t work, they wouldn’t continue to use them.

What Carlos said above is what I’ve heard a lot — many players use steroids in the off-season, when they aren’t tested, and GH during the season to help them maintain their strength and muscle mass, and to recover faster from injuries. (All sports are injurious, as we all know — athletes are always recovering from something.)

That doesn’t mean Ankiel did anything wrong at the time he did it, just that we’re kidding ourselves if we believe these drugs don’t have performance-enhancing effects.

]]> By: Carlos http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6823 Carlos Sat, 08 Sep 2007 04:13:56 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6823 But you cant blame Ankle.I honestly believe @ least 50% of players have used something. But you cant blame Ankle.I honestly believe @ least 50% of players have used something.

]]> By: Carlos http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6822 Carlos Sat, 08 Sep 2007 04:12:28 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6822 Players take HGH to stay Healthy and Fresh not to Buff up. The reason Bonds, Sosa, Mcguire hit all those HRs is because HGH kept them in Mid Season form all year. Anyone who thinks it does not help is mistaken. It does help Alot. Baseball is a game of Centameters, split seconds,and reaction. just a tiny boost can seperate an ALL Star from an Avg Player. Players take HGH to stay Healthy and Fresh not to Buff up. The reason Bonds, Sosa, Mcguire hit all those HRs is because HGH kept them in Mid Season form all year. Anyone who thinks it does not help is mistaken. It does help Alot. Baseball is a game of Centameters, split seconds,and reaction. just a tiny boost can seperate an ALL Star from an Avg Player.

]]> By: mateodh http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6814 mateodh Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:57:43 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/09/07/my-reluctantly-given-2-cents-on-the-ankiel-gate/#comment-6814 "I'm on the same playing field as everyone else." From the press conference on ESPN tonight. Handled himself very well, very calmly. He reassured me that everything he took was under prescription from a licensed doctor, and for rehabilitation only. On with the story... “I’m on the same playing field as everyone else.”

From the press conference on ESPN tonight. Handled himself very well, very calmly. He reassured me that everything he took was under prescription from a licensed doctor, and for rehabilitation only. On with the story…

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