Comments on: 8/21/07 Daily Prospect Report http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/ Baseball's Future in the Gateway City Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:25:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: erik http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6090 erik Thu, 23 Aug 2007 03:33:34 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6090 that change up moves like a screwball...i don't know if it's hoffman-esque but from what i understand it's pretty freaking baffling. he's kind of our own tyler clippard. personally i like soft-tossing tricky guys. you don't normally see the right handed variety but from talking to him he is all about control, control, control and is a pretty confident guy. i won't say he's not a future big leaguer, but he is pretty enigmatic. that change up moves like a screwball…i don’t know if it’s hoffman-esque but from what i understand it’s pretty freaking baffling. he’s kind of our own tyler clippard. personally i like soft-tossing tricky guys. you don’t normally see the right handed variety but from talking to him he is all about control, control, control and is a pretty confident guy. i won’t say he’s not a future big leaguer, but he is pretty enigmatic.

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By: siddfynch http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6086 siddfynch Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:55:05 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6086 The "sample size" statements are getting a little out of hand. I almost posted this yesterday, but bit my tongue...and then see it comes up what seems like 10 times in the Walters thread. Here goes a little Sample Size Manifesto: Let's remember what sample sizes are for. They are for testing hypotheses, whether it be that the data are representative of something (normality, for example), that two things differ, or other inquiries. Now, sample size influences your confidence that what you are seeing is representative, or that a difference is really not due to chance, and so forth. But other things besides sample size also influence that confidence. For example, you might have a small absolute sample size but a large proportion of the overall population (e.g., Adam Kennedy has only made 8 errors all season, but he has only played in 8 games). Or you might have constructed your argument ahead of time (a one-tailed test) and need less sample to have confidence that the data support or don't support it (Rick Ankiel strike out once per Major League game all season....and true to form, he has one in each of his first 20 games). Or - and this is lost on a lot of folks - you have so little variability in your data that you need less sample to support your hypothesis (PJ Walters always goes at least 6 innings and never allows less than 2 runs - after 8 such starts, you might have better confidence in his success than after 12 highly variable starts that yield the same peripherals). What we are really discussing with Walters is whether his body of work in AA is (yet) a reasonable predictor of how he will perform the rest of the season (and eventually in the majors). And Azru is right that 3 starts is a small sample size...but Azru also cannot dismiss the optimism of other people if that small sample size comes with some other attributes. I see this "sample size caveat" from a lot of folks who got their stats training mainly from Sabermetrics, and they make me both happy (at increasing quantitative sophistacation in baseball) and sad (because real statisticians often make fun of sabermetricians) at the same time. So Azru, we get that sample size matters - but, like the saying goes, it's only a part of the package, and one size does not fit all. Go, PJ! The “sample size” statements are getting a little out of hand. I almost posted this yesterday, but bit my tongue…and then see it comes up what seems like 10 times in the Walters thread. Here goes a little Sample Size Manifesto:

Let’s remember what sample sizes are for. They are for testing hypotheses, whether it be that the data are representative of something (normality, for example), that two things differ, or other inquiries.

Now, sample size influences your confidence that what you are seeing is representative, or that a difference is really not due to chance, and so forth. But other things besides sample size also influence that confidence. For example, you might have a small absolute sample size but a large proportion of the overall population (e.g., Adam Kennedy has only made 8 errors all season, but he has only played in 8 games). Or you might have constructed your argument ahead of time (a one-tailed test) and need less sample to have confidence that the data support or don’t support it (Rick Ankiel strike out once per Major League game all season….and true to form, he has one in each of his first 20 games). Or - and this is lost on a lot of folks - you have so little variability in your data that you need less sample to support your hypothesis (PJ Walters always goes at least 6 innings and never allows less than 2 runs - after 8 such starts, you might have better confidence in his success than after 12 highly variable starts that yield the same peripherals).

What we are really discussing with Walters is whether his body of work in AA is (yet) a reasonable predictor of how he will perform the rest of the season (and eventually in the majors). And Azru is right that 3 starts is a small sample size…but Azru also cannot dismiss the optimism of other people if that small sample size comes with some other attributes. I see this “sample size caveat” from a lot of folks who got their stats training mainly from Sabermetrics, and they make me both happy (at increasing quantitative sophistacation in baseball) and sad (because real statisticians often make fun of sabermetricians) at the same time.

So Azru, we get that sample size matters - but, like the saying goes, it’s only a part of the package, and one size does not fit all. Go, PJ!

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By: kernalfan http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6084 kernalfan Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:21:02 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6084 azru-im not trying to sway you.just stating my opinion. you said you liked for prospects to have the velocity. well i like to see a kid that can actually pitch not just throw it up there 90+ & hope they hit it at somebody.this has been a great topic today, now we just have to sit back & let PJs pitching do the talking..time will tell. azru-im not trying to sway you.just stating my opinion. you said you liked for prospects to have the velocity. well i like to see a kid that can actually pitch not just throw it up there 90+ & hope they hit it at somebody.this has been a great topic today, now we just have to sit back & let PJs pitching do the talking..time will tell.

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By: mateodh http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6083 mateodh Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:09:46 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6083 I think P.J. Walters and Mark McCormick should become best friends... I think P.J. Walters and Mark McCormick should become best friends…

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By: azruavatar http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6080 azruavatar Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:51:30 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6080 Kernalfan -- sample size. PJ has done nothing in AA that has significantly changed my opinion of him. Anecdotal evidence isn't going to sway me. Kernalfan — sample size. PJ has done nothing in AA that has significantly changed my opinion of him. Anecdotal evidence isn’t going to sway me.

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By: kernalfan http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6079 kernalfan Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:46:28 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6079 look at his #s the 1st time he faced tulsa & san antonio then look at the 2nd time he faced them , looks like walters is making the adjustments not the other way around. look at his #s the 1st time he faced tulsa & san antonio then look at the 2nd time he faced them , looks like walters is making the adjustments not the other way around.

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By: azruavatar http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6077 azruavatar Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:31:11 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6077 BJM -- Control and movement (and to a lesser extent deception) are definitely good qualities for a pitcher. Mark Buerhle survives on movement. Jeff Suppan survives on control. I totally agree that PJ Walters looked legit through High-A. His peripherals are all down in AA -- again, this is over 35 innings so it's too early to make a big deal out of it. I will readily admit that I'm a velocity whore when it comes to prospects but I like Walters. I think the second portion is referring to what I said earlier and it's less a matter of not having <i>any</i> scouting reports than the pitcher being new to the league and the team not having their <i>own</i> scouting reports. BJM — Control and movement (and to a lesser extent deception) are definitely good qualities for a pitcher. Mark Buerhle survives on movement. Jeff Suppan survives on control. I totally agree that PJ Walters looked legit through High-A. His peripherals are all down in AA — again, this is over 35 innings so it’s too early to make a big deal out of it. I will readily admit that I’m a velocity whore when it comes to prospects but I like Walters.

I think the second portion is referring to what I said earlier and it’s less a matter of not having any scouting reports than the pitcher being new to the league and the team not having their own scouting reports.

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By: BigJawnMize http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6072 BigJawnMize Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:40:33 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6072 AZ- I have heard that his change is well above average and of course his fastball is below average. My point is that we often relate major league stuff with fastball velocity, which doesn't matter as much as pitch movement. Really velocity for a pitcher can be related to one of the 5 tools for hitters--it is just a tool not a skill...Control is a skill...Deception is a skill. Second, someone said that there are no scouting reports on Walters. Every team in the FSL had one and they shared that info with their TL affliates. AZ-

I have heard that his change is well above average and of course his fastball is below average. My point is that we often relate major league stuff with fastball velocity, which doesn’t matter as much as pitch movement. Really velocity for a pitcher can be related to one of the 5 tools for hitters–it is just a tool not a skill…Control is a skill…Deception is a skill.

Second, someone said that there are no scouting reports on Walters. Every team in the FSL had one and they shared that info with their TL affliates.

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By: Luke W http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6069 Luke W Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:55:52 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6069 Clarification.....Not any prospect, but one that was drafted into your system. Clarification…..Not any prospect, but one that was drafted into your system.

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By: Luke W http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6066 Luke W Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:36:23 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/21/82107-daily-prospect-report/#comment-6066 Richard, It is a rule that you can't trade a prospect until he has been in your ogranization for a year. So Jesse Tood will not be the PTBNL since he was just recently drafted and signed. Thought that would help! Richard,

It is a rule that you can’t trade a prospect until he has been in your ogranization for a year. So Jesse Tood will not be the PTBNL since he was just recently drafted and signed. Thought that would help!

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