Comments on: Jose Martinez - Perpetually Overlooked? http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/ Baseball's Future in the Gateway City Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:25:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: Lou Schuler http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5973 Lou Schuler Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:17:50 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5973 Regarding the Cards' strategy for drafting pitchers: I'm fine with taking risks on guys like Ottavino, McCormick and Perez. If they can develop command, they could be devastating. If not, well, most draftees don't work out. At least with these guys, we can all see the potential. That said, I'm beginning to wonder why the Cards aren't drafting more high school pitchers. Somebody seems to be doing a good job scouting. Jaime Garcia may have been a lucky fluke, but whoever scouted Tyler Herron was on the money. Deryk Hooker, the 7th rounder from this year's draft, looks like he could be another astute choice. And some of the guys coming up from the Latin American program look great in the box scores -- Rosales, Carlos and Reynier Gonzalez, maybe Elvis Hernandez (although he seems to have more control problems this season). Maybe that's the key to developing pitching: Get 'em while they're young. Regarding the Cards’ strategy for drafting pitchers:

I’m fine with taking risks on guys like Ottavino, McCormick and Perez. If they can develop command, they could be devastating. If not, well, most draftees don’t work out. At least with these guys, we can all see the potential.

That said, I’m beginning to wonder why the Cards aren’t drafting more high school pitchers. Somebody seems to be doing a good job scouting. Jaime Garcia may have been a lucky fluke, but whoever scouted Tyler Herron was on the money. Deryk Hooker, the 7th rounder from this year’s draft, looks like he could be another astute choice.

And some of the guys coming up from the Latin American program look great in the box scores — Rosales, Carlos and Reynier Gonzalez, maybe Elvis Hernandez (although he seems to have more control problems this season).

Maybe that’s the key to developing pitching: Get ‘em while they’re young.

]]> By: Hammond http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5960 Hammond Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:23:15 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5960 Think poor man's Betancourt. Walk rates, power numbers, size, less range, but maybe just as solid otherwise. I don't know who his defensive contractors are, but I'm venturing to guess they're not watching him over a long period of time. Every time I see him play he does something else that makes me say wow, that was impressive. Maybe it's because I've been watching Eckstein a lot over the last few years, but he looks to me like he could hold down an every day job defensively. Think poor man’s Betancourt. Walk rates, power numbers, size, less range, but maybe just as solid otherwise. I don’t know who his defensive contractors are, but I’m venturing to guess they’re not watching him over a long period of time. Every time I see him play he does something else that makes me say wow, that was impressive. Maybe it’s because I’ve been watching Eckstein a lot over the last few years, but he looks to me like he could hold down an every day job defensively.

]]> By: fewgoodcards http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5950 fewgoodcards Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:48:51 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5950 ottavino has had a lot of trouble finding the plate lately, but it shouldn't be a surprise as he has walked too many his entire (while still short) career. he now has 56 walks in 133 innings this year (3.8 BB/9). last year he walked 32 in just 65.1 innings (4.4 BB/9). he has improved a little, but not much. i made a post after his last start talking about his problems with the walk and the homerun, and i think it is a real concern heading into next year where he will be punished for those with the hitting friendly environment of the texas league. it seems like the cardinals have drafted a lot of these types in recent years. chris lambert, mark mccormick, adam ottavino, and chris perez are all first round college righthanders who had great stuff, but no clue how to pitch. ottavino and perez are still young and have time to figure it out, but the early returns are not encouraging. i find it pretty funny that the most polished first round pitcher out of those 3 drafts is the lone high school pitcher tyler herron. its not just the first rounders who can't throw strikes, it is pretty much every college pitcher they draft early. eric haberer almost walks as many as he strikes out. mitch boggs walks as many as ottavino. brad furnish was decent early on, but he is walking a ton of guys now. gary daley is a complete disaster, eddie degerman can't find the zone, and tyler norrick walks a guy every other inning. one consistent theme when you look at these guys, they all walked a ton of guys in college. we seem to think we know what is wrong and how to fix the deliveries or something, but we haven't been able to improve one of these guy's control. the only college pitcher they have drafted this decade in the early rounds who has been good for anything was danny haren, and he walked basically no one in the minor leagues. instead of trying to follow that strategy, it seems like the cardinals in recent years have fallen in love with the radar gun and have forgot to look for guys that know how to pitch. i don't know what irritates me more, none of these draft picks working out, or the cardinals continuing to draft college righty after college righty in the early rounds when their success rate with those picks has been abysmal. its extremely early, but it looks like they may have finally changed their strategy and acutally drafted some college pitchers that know how to throw strikes this year in clayton mortensen and jess todd. lets hope these guys can hold it together as they move up. ottavino has had a lot of trouble finding the plate lately, but it shouldn’t be a surprise as he has walked too many his entire (while still short) career. he now has 56 walks in 133 innings this year (3.8 BB/9). last year he walked 32 in just 65.1 innings (4.4 BB/9). he has improved a little, but not much. i made a post after his last start talking about his problems with the walk and the homerun, and i think it is a real concern heading into next year where he will be punished for those with the hitting friendly environment of the texas league.

it seems like the cardinals have drafted a lot of these types in recent years. chris lambert, mark mccormick, adam ottavino, and chris perez are all first round college righthanders who had great stuff, but no clue how to pitch. ottavino and perez are still young and have time to figure it out, but the early returns are not encouraging. i find it pretty funny that the most polished first round pitcher out of those 3 drafts is the lone high school pitcher tyler herron.

its not just the first rounders who can’t throw strikes, it is pretty much every college pitcher they draft early. eric haberer almost walks as many as he strikes out. mitch boggs walks as many as ottavino. brad furnish was decent early on, but he is walking a ton of guys now. gary daley is a complete disaster, eddie degerman can’t find the zone, and tyler norrick walks a guy every other inning. one consistent theme when you look at these guys, they all walked a ton of guys in college. we seem to think we know what is wrong and how to fix the deliveries or something, but we haven’t been able to improve one of these guy’s control.

the only college pitcher they have drafted this decade in the early rounds who has been good for anything was danny haren, and he walked basically no one in the minor leagues. instead of trying to follow that strategy, it seems like the cardinals in recent years have fallen in love with the radar gun and have forgot to look for guys that know how to pitch. i don’t know what irritates me more, none of these draft picks working out, or the cardinals continuing to draft college righty after college righty in the early rounds when their success rate with those picks has been abysmal.

its extremely early, but it looks like they may have finally changed their strategy and acutally drafted some college pitchers that know how to throw strikes this year in clayton mortensen and jess todd. lets hope these guys can hold it together as they move up.

]]> By: whiteyball http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5946 whiteyball Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:07:06 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5946 Off the subject, I was doing a little research tonight and have come conclusion that the best right handed starter in the system has to be Tyler Herron at this point. And if that is the case, is Ottavino second? As of late, he has had quite a bit of trouble finding the plate. www.whiteyball.com Off the subject, I was doing a little research tonight and have come conclusion that the best right handed starter in the system has to be Tyler Herron at this point. And if that is the case, is Ottavino second? As of late, he has had quite a bit of trouble finding the plate.

http://www.whiteyball.com

]]> By: Matt http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5945 Matt Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:02:53 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5945 I've seen Martinez a couple of times, and he sparkled in both games. His glove was really solid, and he even made a couple of spectacular plays in the hole. He may not have the greatest speed, but seems to have good lateral quickness. He also scalded the ball in every plate appearance, including cranking one over the left field wall that had plenty behind it. I wasn't expecting much, but I walked away impressed and had to look him up. I’ve seen Martinez a couple of times, and he sparkled in both games. His glove was really solid, and he even made a couple of spectacular plays in the hole. He may not have the greatest speed, but seems to have good lateral quickness.

He also scalded the ball in every plate appearance, including cranking one over the left field wall that had plenty behind it. I wasn’t expecting much, but I walked away impressed and had to look him up.

]]> By: azruavatar http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5942 azruavatar Tue, 21 Aug 2007 02:32:48 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5942 I left out the 2005 stats because I'm distrustful of stats below A-ball. I left out the 2005 stats because I’m distrustful of stats below A-ball.

]]> By: Quentin http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5941 Quentin Tue, 21 Aug 2007 02:31:34 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5941 Fewgood, honestly I couldn't tell you because I've only seen a couple of midland games and both times Penington was the starting short stop. Sorry can't help you there. Fewgood, honestly I couldn’t tell you because I’ve only seen a couple of midland games and both times Penington was the starting short stop. Sorry can’t help you there.

]]> By: fewgoodcards http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5937 fewgoodcards Tue, 21 Aug 2007 01:04:40 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5937 quentin, how would you compare him to midland's gregorio petit? he was ranked as the best defensive shorstop in the texas league this year. you left 2005 out of martinez's stats, but i think it is important to note that he was right there with rasmus and anderson that year playing on the same team. he hit .300/.387/.500 in what was really his best all around season as he set hit career high with 20 walks and 9 steals even though he only played 55 games. i have also compared him to polanco in the past, but i think he may in time actually be more valuable b/c he has shown the ability to play shortstop. i said before the season that no one ever talks about him, but one day he was going to be an every day player for the cardinals and that statement is looking pretty good right now. btw, did you see this today in baseball america's prospect plus? Chris Kline favorite Jose Martinez raised his average 15 points to .301 with a five-hit day, evidently there is someone at baseball america that is a martinez fan, and they also picked him to be a breakout player this year. quentin, how would you compare him to midland’s gregorio petit? he was ranked as the best defensive shorstop in the texas league this year.

you left 2005 out of martinez’s stats, but i think it is important to note that he was right there with rasmus and anderson that year playing on the same team. he hit .300/.387/.500 in what was really his best all around season as he set hit career high with 20 walks and 9 steals even though he only played 55 games.

i have also compared him to polanco in the past, but i think he may in time actually be more valuable b/c he has shown the ability to play shortstop. i said before the season that no one ever talks about him, but one day he was going to be an every day player for the cardinals and that statement is looking pretty good right now.

btw, did you see this today in baseball america’s prospect plus?
Chris Kline favorite Jose Martinez raised his average 15 points to .301 with a five-hit day,

evidently there is someone at baseball america that is a martinez fan, and they also picked him to be a breakout player this year.

]]> By: whiteyball http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5933 whiteyball Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:48:03 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5933 BTW, did you see that Colby was #1 on BA's Prospect Hot Sheet as well as Texas League player of the week? www.whiteyball.com BTW, did you see that Colby was #1 on BA’s Prospect Hot Sheet as well as Texas League player of the week?

http://www.whiteyball.com

]]> By: whiteyball http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5932 whiteyball Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:17:04 +0000 http://futureredbirds.com/2007/08/20/jose-martinez-perpetually-overlooked/#comment-5932 I have seen a play a couple times and came away really impressed. He does have quite a bit more pop than Polanco. His play reminds me a lot of Renteria. I am not saying he will be that good, its just who I think of. One AB in particular sticks out. He got 2 strikes, fouled 3 bullets down the right field line to stay alive. The next pitch was thrown in on his hands and he turned on it and hit a 3-run shot over the left field fence. Totally impressive. www.whiteyball.com I have seen a play a couple times and came away really impressed. He does have quite a bit more pop than Polanco. His play reminds me a lot of Renteria. I am not saying he will be that good, its just who I think of. One AB in particular sticks out. He got 2 strikes, fouled 3 bullets down the right field line to stay alive. The next pitch was thrown in on his hands and he turned on it and hit a 3-run shot over the left field fence. Totally impressive.

http://www.whiteyball.com

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